NThinley

Blocking discussion

Dear Nthinley

Thanks for your interest in Wikipedia and for raising the matter of the block to me (via private e-mail). I administered the block following a request on m:GSR. In the request, it was reported that a bunch of pages got created without any useful content. Upon seeing this request, I checked the content of most of the pages (and, according to the translator I used, there was nothing meaningful in them to put it politely). Following this, I upheld the request and performed the deletions requested. It is off course possible that I came to incorrect conclusions, in which I case I'll be happy to review the case (for this, I'd like you to discuss the main content of some of the articles below, when this is done, I'll have a look at it).

As a final request: could you please further handle this case via this page (I did not block you from this page)? Thanks in advance! --Daniuu (talk) ༡༢:༡༦, ༡༩ སྤྱི་ཟླ་ལྔ་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Dear Daniuu,

Thank you for the response and letting me know what transpired to blocking my contents. I wish to let you know that me and few colleagues who have been uploading the contents lately, for Dzongkha, have been collecting articles on topics that may be used by students, online browsers, general readers, etc and accordingly uploading in wiki. We have hired people to write articles by paying them and later editing it ourselves before uploading. Some contents are collected by ourselves and uploading after editing with the assurance that there is no copyright issue or breach. Regarding my uploads, I have uploaded some articles. Additionally, I have uploaded old and traditional songs and hymns that people search for and used popularly by most. Since they are written in stanzas, I am sure translating tools might render something different for you. But it is popular contents people search for. I am aware there are other platforms like Wiki Source, etc but I felt it is better kept in Wikipedia pages only so that one day it will be the top page in browser page for my native language. Further, I have been looking for popular contents so that they are made available to people through this pages. I do hope this clarification satisfies you and others from Wiki. I look forward to hearing from you. Thank you, NThinley NThinley (talk) ༡༤:༠༥, ༡༩ སྤྱི་ཟླ་ལྔ་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Dear Daniuu,

I am hoping for a clarification from your side as I am still blocked and not given access to Dzongkha Wikipedia page.

Thank you, NThinley (talk) ༠༦:༠༥, ༢༠ སྤྱི་ཟླ་དྲུག་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Hi, I'm sorry for the pretty massive delay from my side. I asked another experienced user to look into your case (but unfortunately, they could not help me). Following this initial review, I got quite busy with some university stuff, because of which your case unfortunately got further delayed (please accept my apologies for this). We are currently discussing your case on metawiki as well. I will post a more extensive reply there (see this page for the relevant discussion). Kind regards, Daniuu (talk) ༡༦:༡༢, ༩ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Dear Daniuu,

I saw the discussion on metawiki which is very kind of you to share (above). It looks like the block for me started from a Russian Ronvoy if I am not mistaken. The issue seem to have stemmed from some of my Dzongkha articles which are considered as spam. Firstly, let me tell you that there is no translation tool for the Dzongkha language at all. There was some discussion of using Bing and then to Tibetan language to get some meaning of my articles posted. Tibetan language is a different language to Dzongkha. Probably only sharing 20-30% vocabulary and that too from sharing of Buddhism religion and the terms. Therefore, using any translation tool to get any meaning out of Dzongkha would be a futile effort. (Thank that guy for mentioning me as amateurish wikipedian. I am now but s/he needs to help us improve if he do not like the amateurish contributions!)

There is also a discussion of consulting CFynn and Rpel to verify my posts. However, we are working closely in Bhutan (where Dzongkha is its National Language) and knows each other for a long time. Indeed, Cfynn invited Rpel to improve Dzongkha page and Rpel invited and created a login for me. We are all working to improve Dzongkha content in Wikipedia. We are working together in a professional way. Firstly, we let people write or translate articles in Dzongkha. Then edit for spelling and grammars. After that only we are posting in Dzongkha wiki. The articles are ensured that they do not have copyright or other issues. By doing this way, we are also filtering sub-standard article, unedited articles, etc to create a trust for the articles uploaded for viewing.

People like me and Rpel are native speakers of Dzongkha and so do let us contribute to Dzongkha wiki page. Without us this page would not improve. We are suddenly contributing to Dzongkha wiki page from 2021 onward because we want to create more Dzongkha contents as many people are searching various information on the web and are getting frustrated when they do not get anything. Therefore, we decided that Wiki will be a good page to start (although I am aware it is not trusted academically like Google Scholar). I am bringing the articles that are mostly referred by people. One thing, I mentioned of uploading songs and let me once again note that the songs I uploaded are old genre traditional songs that do not have copyright issue (You know even a book loses Copyright if the author has died and been about 50 years since!) and people are looking for them on web. Newer songs have copyright and therefore I would never upload them. Someone mentioned they are better uploaded in WikiSource. We do not have an account there. Once we have an account there we will. We have plans to upload Dzongkha books in WikiSource later on. You know very well that songs are short with only few stanzas and why to bother it uploading in WikiSource which seem mainly for books.

Me and few of us are spending money and time to get good and edited Dzongkha articles for posting on Dzongkha Wiki page and we would be happy if Wiki at large could support us financially too. We heard some helps are provided to unknown small languages and in developing countries and we would be happy if any help can be given. But before anything, my block needs to be removed.

Thank you NThinley (talk) ༠༣:༣༢, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Following the statement of CFynn on metawiki, I will remove your block in a minute. Please accept my apologies for the incorrect block and the massive delay in handling the appeal's process. Daniuu (talk) ༡༦:༠༧, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

NThinley If you want to post traditional Dzongkha songs or traditional literature (which is out of copyright) the proper place to do this would be on WikiSource. I think you'd have to create a sub-section there for Dzongkha. Your login here should normally work there too. Dzongkha Wikipedia should be used for encyclopedic articles written in Dzongkha. Of course if you wrote an article on Dzongkha folk songs or traditional Dzongkha literature you could link it to relevant material on WikiSource. CFynn (talk) ༡༦:༡༡, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

CFynn, I think, if you create articles about traditional songs, then lyrics of the songs could be published inside these articles, if the lyrics are not long. Then it may not be necessary to create a WikiSource section. --Impro (talk) ༡༧:༡༠, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

CFynn, I will give a try in WikiSource to upload the old song lyrics. You know very well that all those competition staged live have a mix of what is popularly known as Zhungdra, Boedra, and Rigsar: Zhungdra and Boedra are old genre songs and I know the contestants and students do search them online. Along with traditional songs, I have already compiled few old books in Dzongkha that are rare to find. Making them available for future is important. The works of people such as late Lam Nado and Pemala who are pioneers of Dzongkha grammar are not available anywhere. Thank you for the suggestion. NThinley (talk) ༡༨:༠༢, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Welcome and Thanks for your contribution to Wikipedia.

༉ བྱོན་པ་ལེགས་སོ།

Hello, NThinley, and welcome to Dzongkha Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay.

Meanwhile, whenever you have any free time, please start writing articles, filling out the empty articles, and translating articles from English Wikipedia. Don't worry if you make a mistake, these can always be easily corrected.

Here are a few good links for newcomers:

• Talk about Dzongkha Wikipedia
• The five pillars of Wikipedia
• How to edit a page
• Help pages
• Tutorial
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out en:Wikipedia:Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Impro (talk) ༡༨:༠༧, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

I have looked at the articles you posted. In order to improve them so that they do not look like spam, it is highly desirable to indicate the authoritative sources on the basis of which these articles are written. Rpel cites sources in her articles, so her articles don't look like spam. --Impro (talk) ༡༨:༠༧, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Also, it would be great to link your articles to other articles with internal links, categories, and also interlanguage links. These are the tools that make Wikipedia very user-friendly for readers. --Impro (talk) ༡༨:༠༧, ༡༡ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Localization

Hi!

I'm glad to see that you were unblocked and that your contributions were restored. By coincidence, I watched the charming film "Lunana" earlier, and it made me think whether there's anything else I can do to help the Wikipedia in this language develop.

I don't know the Dzongkha language, but I like giving technical support to people who write in Wikipedia in various languages. One thing I noticed about Dzongkha is that the level of software localization into it is quite low. If you have some time to contribute to it, please create an account at https://translatewiki.net, and I'll guide you how to do it.

Thanks! Amir E. Aharoni (talk) ༢༣:༣༣, ༡༥ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Hi Amir,

Thank you and others for reviewing and unblocking me. I would be happy to contribute to improve Dzongkha content. Do let me know more about the translatewiki whenever you get free time. Thank you for the newcomers page link and I will go through it. Pl be assured the new articles would be referenced and if possible linked with other articles (so that it is not construed as spam). I look forward to improving the Dzongkha wiki page.

Thank you, NThinley (talk) ༠༦:༠༢, ༡༩ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

I am available to talk about translatewiki at any time. Have you created an account there? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) ༠༧:༢༣, ༡༩ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

I have not created any account. But I would like to know more about what the translatewiki is all about. Is it to translate the existing wiki contents or something else. Thank you. 202.144.151.17 ༠༩:༢༢, ༡༩ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

It's not about content. It's about the user interface. Buttons like "Create account", "Log in", "Edit", "Upload", "Publish", etc. There are also some longer ones".

A few of these things are translated to Dzongkha, but many are not, and they should be, otherwise they are shown in English.

You can see a list of what is already translated. (If you see any mistakes there, they can be corrected.) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) ༡༠:༣༠, ༡༩ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བདུན་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

Hi Amir, Sorry for the late reply as I was engaged with other works. Can I get full list of the UI (both translated and not translated ones). I will translate, edit and send back. It is good if the UI can be in Dzongkha. Do send it to my email. Thank you NThinley (talk) ༠༦:༥༧, ༥ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བཅུ་གཉིས་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

The recommended way to do this is to create an account on the website translatewiki.net, go to https://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?title=Special:Translate&language=dz&suppresscomplete=1&group=core-0-mostused&filter=&action=page , and contribute the missing translations.

If you cannot have a reliable web connection for a long time, there's a possibility to receive a text, file, write the translations in it, and then upload it. It's a bit complicated technically, but if it's necessary, I can help you do it. Do you want to do this? Amir E. Aharoni (talk) ༢༡:༣༠, ༥ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བཅུ་གཉིས་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)

I will try with the first option you suggested. If there is issue with it I will come to your second option. I may not be able to do immediately as I am engaged but will find a suitable time and do it. Further, I need the time of my colleagues for proofreading and editing so I need to talk to them too. But don't worry, it will be done. NThinley (talk) ༠༤:༥༧, ༧ སྤྱི་ཟླ་བཅུ་གཉིས་པ། ༢༠༢༢ (UTC)